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Post by Tigger's Mommy on Dec 1, 2006 0:06:34 GMT -5
I am the same way as you, Apollos Mom and Dad, I don't want to give back my baby. She is an amazing dog, but right now, we're both working so much to afford buying a new home, we're thinking about having a child, and Tigger being a senior with arthritus, I think that Abby would do much better with a mommy and daddy who can be with her 24/7 and give her the love and attention she deserves. I love my little girl, but I am starting to think this may be for the best. I dont have the time to be contantly doing laundry and scrubbing cages clean, my husband doesn't have the energy when he gets home from work to deal with the messes, I work afternoons and nights and when I get home at night, my husband is in bed and I have to deal with the night time messes and anxiety. I love Abby, I love her so much, but its so hard. She breaks my heart, lately she has looked so depressed. When she is at my husband's parents she is a different dog, she runs around, wags her tail, never makes a mess in the house, but the moment we come home to the appartment and Tigger she starts again.
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Post by apollo on Dec 1, 2006 8:42:13 GMT -5
I don't know how you do it. I'm sure that Abby is amazing. I had a good cry last night. Apollo is lying peacefully on my bed right now. Keep me posted.
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Post by rprovost on Dec 1, 2006 12:48:41 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear both of you are having problems and debating having to return your pups. One suggestion for Abby, did you have her checked for worms or anything? Have you had her poop checked? When we first brought Zooks home he was terrible for pooping in the house - and it turned out to be worms. Once he was treated, and since then, he's been great. We knew it was a problem because he was messing in his crate, and thats not good. I am so sorry to hear about Apollo. I understand how hard it must be. I was actually worried we would have to return Zooks when we brought him home because he kept pooping in the house. Fortunately, in our case, it was our fault - he needed to be crated, and we tried uncrating him. Once we got him meds for the worms and crated him consistently, he was much better. He doesn't even show many signs of separation anxiety anymore. A while ago our vet gave us these herbal drops to put on his gums, for separation anxiety. Maybe something like that would be worth trying? How long is he left alone when he has an accident? Have you tried belly bands or anything? I don't have much experience with them, but someone else might. I wish I had something to say that could help. You've tried so hard with Apollo. Have you checked out greytalk.com? I'm not sure if anyone there would have more advice for either of you. I was so sad to read this today... I've been so busy with work I haven't had a chance to check the board. Well, if its of any help, Apollo's mom and dad, the second was easier to train than the first for us. Nina just followed everything Zooks did, and she's done wonderful. She had 3 or so accidents in her bed (in her crate) for the first few days we had her, but we've never had a problem since (except for the socks and slippers of mine that she steals and cuddles with). I just wish I had more answers for you both Good luck, and trust that you're doing the right thing for both your family and your pets.
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Post by tara on Dec 1, 2006 14:20:17 GMT -5
I agree with rprovost about the worms. When I read that comment I realized that we went through that with Tyson and there was probably a connection. It is worth a try. We thought we would have problems with Ty at first (pooping in the house - he NEVER peed) He had worms. Looking back once he was treated for worms he has had no accidents since. If you have had her tested for worms get her retested or just deworm her. Some types are harder to find/diagnose due to life cycle and tapeworms do not show up in a routine floatation test. Our vet charged me $14.00 approx. for two doses of dewormer (hook, round and ring worms) for both my dogs. Ty also had tapeworm that was one dose (for one dog) which cost me $21.00. It was money well spent. How long have you had Abby? Does she have accidents when you are home too? (You have probably already said). I hope this might be part of your problems because it is so easily solved. Good luck and we will remember you in our prayers. "greytalk" is a wealth of info and very helpful as well as many different styles of training so you can find the one that works for you.
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Post by samrob on Dec 1, 2006 18:17:01 GMT -5
We did have problems with Hotwire pooping and peeing. It was worse in his crate (which he destroyed). He also eats doors and doorframes. He is now allowed in the living room, our bedroom, and the kitchen (muzzled) when we go. But I can honestly say that using Clomicalm to help with the anxiety has been like night and day. The messing in the house almost completely stopped. We have had one accident in months. I didn't want to medicate, but I was willing to try before we were evicted. I am now happy I tried. It is much better than having to return him. Also, how are you cleaning up after the messes. If the dog can smell the scent of urine or feces, they will continue to use that area to potty. I would clean the area well (Bissel Green Machine!) and then use an enzime cleaner like "Knock-out" Oh, and we borrowed a friends dog to see if that worked to help Hope. I wish you the best. I wish I could help more.
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Post by P&G_mom&dad on Dec 1, 2006 19:35:43 GMT -5
I can't imagine all the challenges you are facing with Apollo and Abby. It must be so tough. Please try every suggestion and check out every possibility. Greytalk has so much info and support. Try it all and try it all again, the dogs deserve it! Our thoughts are with you.
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Post by Tigger's Mommy on Dec 2, 2006 0:25:56 GMT -5
We have had Abby checked and worms were not an issue. our vet gave her a dewormer just as a precaustion (she did the same for Tigger when we had him in). She never messes in the house when we are home, it is only when I leave she does it, which leads me to believe it is seperation anxiety. She can be in the house for 8 or 9 hours without going out and no accidents, I can leave for 10 minutes to go to the store (its right below my appartment) and I come home to a cage of poop. I am going to give her a month... see if we can straighten her out... I don't want to loose my baby girl!
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Post by jiffer on Dec 2, 2006 11:26:15 GMT -5
The drops that were mentioned in Becky's post was probably "Rescue Remedy". I forgot about it. I haven't used it myself but I've heard it works very well to relax stressed puppies without drugging them with meds like Clomicalm. I've been told that it's available at Health Food Stores (maybe GNC?).
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Post by greymouse on Dec 2, 2006 15:22:45 GMT -5
The drops that were mentioned in Becky's post was probably "Rescue Remedy". I've been told that it's available at Health Food Stores (maybe GNC?). We got some at Lyn-Dys (health food store)on Oxford St.
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Post by tara on Dec 4, 2006 9:04:09 GMT -5
Tyson does not eliminate while we are gone nor does he whine or bark. He does however try to get out of his kennel (succeeding once) and pants alot. Uncrating is not an option right now (no place to block off that he doesn't have access to things he could get hurt on). I am fearful he will hurt himself. Has anyone used Rescue Remedy or a similar product and does it work? We have done the slow training getting him used to periods alone in crate (took us 10 weeks). He goes right to his kennel when told to kennel up not scared when we shut the door nothing. Takes his treat eats it lays down but when we get home more wires are bent and his blanket is wet (not pee). Yesterday he kick the tray out of his kennel. I just need to keep him calm. It seems his anxiety builds the longer we are gone (1 hr. okay 4 hrs NOT okay). Someone once told me that dogs don't understand time is that true? My case is not as bad as Apollo's or Abby's. I will figure something out. What about an x-pen for Ty? are they sturdy enough?
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ceedee
Junior Grey Lover
Posts: 187
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Post by ceedee on Dec 4, 2006 9:56:13 GMT -5
I am by no means an expert on this, being new to retired racers, but I've got a couple of ideas that might help. First of all, he spent all of his past life in a cage so there must be a reason why he is rebelling against it now. Maybe he doesn't like the location of the crate. I think I read previously that it was in your daughter's room. Perhaps he feels too isolated in that room. I would move the crate into your main living area where you spend most of your time. Even if it is a bit crowded for a while, it might be worth it. I would feed him exclusively in the crate - no exceptions - so that he associates the crate with good things. After all, he was fed in his crate before you adopted him. Keep him in the crate for a while after he eats with everyone around so that he learns to relax in the crate again. I would locate the crate where he could see the TV. I think watching visual images is better than the radio. I socialize feral cats and I always put a movie in for them to make them feel comfortable around humans. I also have a cat movie for them to watch - it's a bunch of birds in different situations. Dog movies are also available. Put a movie on when you go out - children's movies with dogs barking might be good. These are things that I would personally try - they may not be feasible for you. Good luck!
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Post by tara on Dec 4, 2006 12:37:45 GMT -5
The crate in the living room would not work, living room is too small as I would have to move 2 extra large crates there. Tyson is not alone in my daughter's bedroom our other dog is crated with him radio on and door open (both dogs have closed-dooritis). He goes in his kennel and lays down plays with his stuffie in there gets his marrow bones in there. He associates it with good things already hence why he will go in with no problem at all. It is the keeping him calm while in there that seems to be the problem. Again he is okay in there short term (an hour or so) but not when gone for long periods of time (4+ hrs.). I called my vet this morning and he recommended something called Bio-Calm (like Rescue Remedy all herbal and natural) that I give him an hour before we leave and he only needs to take it when we are going to be gone for extended periods of time. Researching more about it and might give it a try. I will let Apollo and Abby's moms know if it works and maybe they can give it a try if they haven't tried already.
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ceedee
Junior Grey Lover
Posts: 187
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Post by ceedee on Dec 4, 2006 15:42:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the l0 week slow training involved, but when you put Tyson in the crate "alone" for short periods of time, did you leave the house? I'm wondering if you start putting him in the crate for short periods of time when you are home, he might start disassociating being left alone with being in the crate. From what I've been reading, it sounds like separation anxiety more than disliking the crate, especially since he doesn't mind going in it, and I assume that he sleeps soundly in it all night because he knows everyone is home. Hopefully the Bio-Calm will be the answer. I used Rescue Remedy on my feral foster cats but it did not help them too much - they were REALLY stressed, however, literally climbing the walls stressed.
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Post by jiffer on Dec 4, 2006 16:39:57 GMT -5
First of all, he spent all of his past life in a cage so there must be a reason why he is rebelling against it now. I beg to differ on this one. There are plenty of GHs at the kennel right now who have to be muzzled so they don't hurt themselves on the crate. They do start to rebel against it. Their lives are very different now that they are in a home. They start to see the whole house as their crate. Two of mine told me when they were done with it. When I adopted Icarus, Bill warned me that he did not like the crate. In fact, Icarus was terrified of the crate, I couldn't make him go in there if I had put a nice roast in there. Rescue Remedy, Clomicalm and any other remedies are like anything else, they will work for some but not for all. All you can do is try.
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Post by tara on Dec 5, 2006 10:33:53 GMT -5
The 10 week training invovled allowing him to enter the kennel when he wanted with door open, then with it closed then with us leaving for short periods of time then longer periods and so on. I believe it is a mild (compared to Apollo and Abby's) SA case. He doesn't sleep in his crate he sleeps in our room. Well if the Bio-Calm doesn't work then we will have to try something else (maybe uncrating). Abby and Apollo's moms are things going better/hopefully not worse? I hope they and you are getting the rest and relaxation you need. I know that you will do what is best for your families and your beautiful dogs in this stressful situation.
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