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Post by Adam Samantha & Cora on Apr 4, 2014 23:20:38 GMT -5
We were told recently that our sweet Cora has been in a dog fight and ended up severely hurting the other dog. We don't know the circumstances or if this was the only instance. I can't imagine how traumatic that would have been for both dogs and it's obvious that Cora is having a lot of behavioral issues regarding other animals mostly dogs. Since we have had her we have noticed that she gets very tense around other dogs no matter what dog it is. She's always super alert and stressed around other dogs. We have a lot of dogs in our area it's pretty hard to avoid all of them while walking her. you normally run into one or two at least every walk and her ears are perked up and she stares them down, but she's super quiet. She doesn't trust other dogs she needs to know where they are and what they are doing at all times.
We tried going to the dog park within the first few days of having her and she tensed up really quickly and a huge great Dane sniffed her and she growled a lot. I immediately took her back out of there for fear that she would get out of my grip and attack another dog. I was scared.
We keep the muzzle on her most of the time now while in the house so she can get used to the cats without biting. She's been swat at a few times but in general she has been fantastic with them, she ignores them for the most part. (our cats are also getting used to having her here as they do what they want and walk around freely.)
Cora is an absolute delight to have as a great companion for us because she's smart as a whip and listens religiously to us when we are firm with her. She knows general commands and a bit extra. I really am hoping to get advice on the Dog aggression or fear toward other dogs and see what you guys think about all of this? is this normal behaviour or is this something that can't be fixed?
We have been trying to train and we tug firmly on her leash when we are walking past other dogs and try to get her attention but most of the time its not easy to get her away from that. We are really trying and we are thinking about maybe getting a clicker and bringing treats everywhere we go from now on. What do you guys think? Is there any additional things we could do to help her transition easier or feel better about other dogs?
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Post by mustlovedogs on Apr 5, 2014 8:42:43 GMT -5
Poor Cora, that's so unfortunate that she's stressed around other pups. We have a similar issue with our first fur-kid, Mac, who is very reactive to other dogs when he's on a leash. Mac was rescued from a puppy mill and had a really hard life before we adopted him, poor guy. I hired a highly recommended trainer for Teia to help her with her human-related anxiety on walks, and we've also been working with Mac's dog fear-aggression issues. Here's what we've been instructed to do on Mac's walks. Keeping a safe distance from another dog (i.e. across the street, or we stand on the boulevard/driveway while another dog passes), we click and give Mac a treat every time Mac looks at another dog (yes, this means many click-treat repetitions if you live in a dog populated neighborhood like us). We're hoping this positive reinforcement helps to re-wire Mac's brain to have a good response when he sees or encounters another dog. If we don't have time to set up for this exercise, the trainer has instructed us to cross the street or turn around if we see another dog approaching to avoid a fear-aggression reaction (as we trying to break that behavior pattern). So far, Mac is responding VERY well to this positive training. I've tried numerous things before this (i.e. leash correction, telling him 'no', taking him to the dog park for further socialization), to no avail. I hope this helps If not, you could always hire a private trainer for a few sessions? Our trainer has been so wonderful and she's not that expensive (2 hours for 75$). She only uses positive reinforcement methods and the fur-kids just love her.
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Post by Adam Samantha & Cora on Apr 5, 2014 10:07:40 GMT -5
Awe that's awesome but Cora stares the other dogs down as soon as she sees them if we treat her while she's doing this wouldn't that be enforcing bad behaviours?
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Post by mustlovedogs on Apr 5, 2014 10:52:21 GMT -5
Hi again. That is an excellent question, and I realize this training exercise is difficult to explain without a demo. My question is whether Cora 'looks' at the dog before she 'stares' them down? Mac usually looks before he stares, and we reward him for looking, because this is normal dog behavior. The trainer has encouraged us to be prepared during training and read his body language(i.e. reward the look, and prevent further reactivity). The important point is that the instant Mac looks at the dog, we click to reward the behavior and give a treat. If you're able to anticipate the arrival of another dog, you can hopefully reward Cora while she's looking vs. 'staring'. The click forces Mac's attention back to us instead of the dog, rewards him for looking and prevents his behavior from escalating to aggression. After he eats his treat, he will usually look at the other dog again, and we click and treat. And continue in this way until the dog passes. Mac has gone from staring the other dog down and a barking/lunging reaction to focusing on us and wagging his tail. Of course, it will take many repetitions to fully change his fear-aggression reaction, but at least it's a start. Does this make more sense?
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Post by mustlovedogs on Apr 5, 2014 11:03:43 GMT -5
Also, it really helped to do our first repetitions of this exercise in a controlled environment. I had Mac on the driveway/boulevard, and trainer would walk her dogs by on the sidewalk. This way, we could practice with dogs who were well behaved/ under control, and I was able to prepare for their approach. I'm not sure if you could ask a friend with a good dog to help you with this exercise while you get the hang of it?
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Post by Adam Samantha & Cora on Apr 5, 2014 11:29:20 GMT -5
Interesting. We don't really know anyone around here with a dog that we could try it with. But I will try and evaluate her next time we are out. I Still don't really see how treating her for looking at the other dog will teach her not to be aggressive. but then again I don't really know how training works which is why I asked you guys. Maybe we should get a trainer just to show us how to do it or what to do. We jerk her attention away with the leash and keep walking most of the time. we are trying to get her to sit in the elevator and she did twice yesterday so we treated her. I know that she's a fast learner so I know it must be possible to train her effectively.
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Tipsy
Grey Puppy
Posts: 91
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Post by Tipsy on Apr 5, 2014 19:19:10 GMT -5
I would also highly recommend a professional trainer. Not only would they know the signs of when she's crossed the line into 'too focused', but they would be able to custom-tailor the best way for her to overcome it, based on her own behavior. And there's nothing like getting hands-on experience, guided by a pro - they'd be right there to help if they saw you doing something to accidentally encourage the behavior, as well!
As for treating for looking, the goal isn't necessarily to reward a behavior(although that would be a bonus if you can catch her calmly looking, rather than intent looking), but to associate dogs with good things. It's setting up the idea in her mind that if another dog shows up, she gets a treat. If tugging at the leash gets her attention, click and treat right away! If you can break her attention from the other dog even for a moment, click and treat.
If she's less reactive at a distance, then distance could be a great training tool, along with a heaping dose of patience. I used this method with my old roommate's hyperactive Shiba, and it worked fairly well. ((thought it didn't last because the owner didn't maintain the training asdfhask)) I don't know if the same principle would carry over to aggression rather than over-excitement, but it might be worth a try. Set yourself up away from, but within sight of the dog park, and just rest there. Set up a chair or something, if the weather is good. She'll likely be tense, but tension is exhausting, and with any luck she'll relax after a while. Then click and treat. Take a bit of a walk to reset, then go back and do it again.
When I did this, I stood around for about ten minutes before the Shiba finally put her butt down, then we sat and did treats for a while. She'd occasionally get worked up again if another dog passed us, so I'd just wait until she had stopped flipping out, and then click/treat. I was out for several hours, but I did consider it well spent time.
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Post by Adam Samantha & Cora on Apr 5, 2014 22:33:12 GMT -5
We contacted a trainer that Vet Julie told us about. We will for sure be having her come next week sometime. and hopefully once a week for a few months.
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Post by GreyPoopon on Apr 6, 2014 9:13:29 GMT -5
I think getting a trainer--especially one that comes with a recommendation--is a very good idea. I hope the trainer is able to resolve the problem reasonably soon. It may take some time, but with the right guidance, I'm sure that Cora can learn to ignore other dogs. Cal did, and she was very reactive, even from long distances. (She also had little interest in treats at the best of times. We used other methods--there are lots of options.) In the meantime, do what you can to give her space from other dogs, even if it means going a different direction.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 9:47:36 GMT -5
No advice here, just offering my support for you guys! Martha
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craftycrafter
Grey Lover
Holstein 2008-2011 "gone too soon" Lola 2003-2014 "sweetheart"
Posts: 726
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Post by craftycrafter on Apr 6, 2014 12:08:59 GMT -5
I wonder if Cora missing her fellow greyhounds. I have found that greys seem to enjoy and understand other greys easier than they do other dogs. After all they do grow up and live with alot of greyhounds for friends.
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Hopper
Junior Grey Lover
Posts: 115
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Post by Hopper on Apr 6, 2014 18:38:43 GMT -5
My greyhound had some sleep aggression for approximately 6 months after she came home with us. It slowly faded over time and eventually disappeared. Hopefully as Cora settles in with you, this too will fade away.
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whovian
Junior Grey Lover
River (a.k.a Iruska Cool Chic) has claimed me as her "friendbeast"
Posts: 171
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Post by whovian on Apr 6, 2014 21:00:57 GMT -5
I think you are doing the best thing by hiring a trainer. Aggression is a tough nut to crack, especially if a dog has been in a fight before.
River also displays aggression occasionally towards other dogs, but there is no consistency in it. Sometimes she has no interest in meeting other dogs and makes it clear to me that she wants to go the other way. Other times she is quite friendly and interested.
Usually she has her tail between her legs and I am on high alert then when she meets non-greyhounds. Sometimes she growls immediately on a first sniff with other dogs, and other times she is happy and fine and then 10 minutes later she randomly growls and gets everyone to back off. I've never seen anything in the other dog's behaviour that I thought should set her off on these occasions.
I will probably also hire a professional to help me find the source of this behaviour if it continues too, as the unpredictability of it bothers me. I want to be able to trust my dog, and be able to predict what she will do in a given situation, especially if she has the tendency to do the wrong thing like be aggressive. I've just been waiting for her leg to be fully healed so I can rule pain/defensiveness out as a source of the aggression. (She hasn't shown any aggressive behaviour in about 4 weeks now which is a good sign).
On a random note, I've taken River for walks with other greyhounds, and she is noticeably more friendly with other breeds we've encountered when she is surrounded by excited friendly greyhounds greeting the other dog. She seems to think, "Well, if they think this funny looking animal is ok, maybe he's not so bad. I'll just try a little sniff ... "
She's only growled at a greyhound once - Jitter - and they'd already gone on one long walk together before, and she had had no problems with him then. Jitter's mum and I walked together with our dogs on the outside for a while after that and had happy, calm conversations. River seemed fine then, and was able to walk beside Jitter with no problems by the end. It's strange.
I am still hopeful that she will learn to play nicely with my parents dog, who is an 80 lab, and is a ball of excited energy. They've been working with him on not jumping up, but it's been a struggle. He jumps straight up and down, like an Italian greyhound when he gets excited about anything (His nickname is Tigger). I completely understand why she gets frustrated with him, but he is always submissive towards other dogs. So when I go home, I stay with a friend and meet my mom and Jupiter for a walk every afternoon in a parking lot. Last time I was home, we got it so that mom and Jupiter could walk 4 feet away from us. Jupiter was much calmer and River had stopped growling. It was a huge improvement. Lots and lots of treats were involved.
I agree that it's best to reward good behaviour, but I also agree that treats are equally important for creating positive associations with stressful experiences. I mean, just imagine how much better job interviews would be if the interviewer continually fed you cake. Getting cake for good answers will make you try harder, but it adds stress too. Getting cake for just being there? Even if you bomb an interview question? That's way less stressful and way more awesome.
Good luck with Cora. I am glad you are committed to helping her put her past behind her, and figure out how to be around dogs again in the future. As I know you know, life is a lot more fun for everyone when you have a dog who doesn’t stress out about other dogs. We're rooting for ya!
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Post by Adam Samantha & Cora on Apr 6, 2014 22:51:34 GMT -5
Awwwe thanks guys. <3
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