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Post by savannah on Sept 4, 2014 10:46:41 GMT -5
Hey all!
Just wanted to get some advice from everyone who is familiar with off the track greys, Grady had his last race in July and came home to me this past Monday. I have noticed he is on and off sore on his left shoulder and back left leg. The shoulder can be spotted at a walk and both shoulder and back leg can be seen at a trot. Again, this is on and off.
What I am wondering is if dogs recently off the track experience this? I have noticed his muscle tone is greatly uneven from left to right (of course!) and perhaps all this time out of the kennel is now bringing that to light. The left hand side is doing a lot of "different" work that it might not have done before.
As far as the back leg I am most certain it is toe related. He had a funny nail that we thought to be completely missing but upon further investigation it is there, and I think potentially imbedded in the pad. I am treating with vetericyn (it doesn't look infected, there is one tiny red spot but nothing alarming) keeping a close eye on it and will take him to the vet if I feel it gets to that point, I figured it was worth mentioning because of course something of in the rear can affect the front.
Anyways, just wanted to know if a bit of lameness is common from a recent retired racer or if it's something that should be investigated further by a vet.
Thank you,
Savannah and Grady
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Post by savannah on Sept 4, 2014 14:22:12 GMT -5
I forgot to mention, I do have a back on track blanket for him that I will bring home and put on his bed, I think this is a good excuse to order him their Greyhound coat!
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whovian
Junior Grey Lover
River (a.k.a Iruska Cool Chic) has claimed me as her "friendbeast"
Posts: 171
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Post by whovian on Sept 4, 2014 19:58:37 GMT -5
My opinion is probably biased, but I would have it investigated. My pup retired with a broken leg, was casted, and was supposed to be fully healed when I brought her home 4 weeks after I picked her out at the GRA. She was lame the day I brought her home, and I was told this was normal because of how much muscle mass she had lost. I was told to go easy and look for swelling, and if there was no swelling, our level of activity was fine. I foolishly waited three weeks before taking her into the vet, and within 10 seconds the vet wanted to do x-rays. Her hock had either rebroken under my care, or never fully healed. I felt horrible. I'd been taking her for 10 minute walks on a broken foot!
If I had to do it over again I would have driven to the vet on day 2. There was no swelling in the break and it was not hot or anything, so I don't blame anybody. That's just the kind of break it was. I just wish I could have those three weeks back last year when I accidentally caused her a lot of pain. She was trying so hard to fit into her new home and do what was expected of her, that she wasn't telling me how much she was hurting. We really needed a vet's touch to know.
Once again, my two cents is incredibly biased by my own guilt, but there it is.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using proboards
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Post by mjgrey on Sept 4, 2014 20:28:08 GMT -5
Congratulations on bringing Grady into your family! When we brought Blue home in June, he really seemed to "hobble" on his walks for several weeks. I was convinced he had corns on his feet, or an old injury. We did take him to the vet within 2 weeks of having him, which I would suggest to you as well ( ever so humbly . It's good to get your new vet familiar with your new dog when not in an emergency situation, and can help socialize him and help him correlate car rides with pleasant experiences. One of the things our vet did with both of our greys is to feel their bones for old breaks and their muscles for any soreness, on our initial visits. I'm sure any issues would be discovered by their skilled hands, and it would ease your worries. By the way, Blue did not have corns or muscle/bone issues, we are chalking up his hobbling to sensitive foot pads. He is fine now, and we've had him for two months! Take care, and keep us posted!
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whovian
Junior Grey Lover
River (a.k.a Iruska Cool Chic) has claimed me as her "friendbeast"
Posts: 171
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Post by whovian on Sept 4, 2014 20:32:06 GMT -5
That all came out harsher than I intended - I guess what I am saying is better safe than sorry! The greys come to us with no medical record, and even with a dog like mine that had a recorded injury that I was watching for, it was hard for me to determine whether or not there was a problem. She barely limped, there was no swelling, and yet her central metatarsal was in two pieces!
If I had known, I would have made very different choices in terms of what I asked her to do in those first few weeks. I would have carpeted the entire house and never would have asked her to even try srairs.
From your other thread, I can see that Grady is a beautiful boy! Keep an eye on him, and give him lots of scratches for us. With all your show experience, you can probably spot lameness easier than most. Maybe try to see if he is in pain. Does he put weight squarely across all his legs? What if you press on his shoulder, does he try to pull away? If you can pinpoint the sites of injury and determine how much pain (if any) he is in, you can make a better infirmed decision.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using proboards
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Post by renegade on Sept 4, 2014 21:35:13 GMT -5
Since its been about 6 weeks since he's raced, I'd say if it was general soreness from the track it would have resolved itself by now, so I'd be leaning towards getting a little check up by the vets, if anything, I think it would ease your concerns! Until then, you can employ the old standard treatment of keeping them quiet, (this is where we thank god they are greyhounds, haha) Especially if you can see an unevenness in muscle tone, it would appear that he is compensating for something, so if it were me, I'd have the vet take a quick look at it. He really is a beauty boy! I wish you all the happiness with your new friend. Keep us updated!
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Post by savannah on Sept 5, 2014 10:01:59 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for your posts!
I am going to book him in at the vets for next week thanks to all your suggestions. If it is not a common "off the track" thing (which I now know it isn't!) we will definitely get it sorted. I can palpate the shoulder, leg, wither, with no resistance or signs of pain from him but there is obviously lameness going on from watching him move.
Do you all notice a big difference in muscle tone from left to right on your hounds or is that out of the ordinary? I really did assume this was developed from a one sided racing career but perhaps that is not so⦠I will get a photo in a bit when we go out for pee break!
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Post by savannah on Sept 5, 2014 11:22:41 GMT -5
Okay, I am really thinking it's hip now (how things change!). A few things. The bone that is visible on greyhounds where the lumbar and sacrum meet (you know, those two boney hip guys on either side of the spine?) the one on the left is not visible at all and I can't feel it . The one on the right is what I would consider normal. He always lays right him down which has me wondering if that left hip is causing issues. I took a few photos for interests sakes but will book him a vet appt. because now I am quite worried!
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whovian
Junior Grey Lover
River (a.k.a Iruska Cool Chic) has claimed me as her "friendbeast"
Posts: 171
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Post by whovian on Sept 5, 2014 12:16:35 GMT -5
From what I have seen, greyhounds tend to be pretty right/left symmetrical in muscle definition coming off of the track. A problem lower down (say, with the foot) can cause changes in muscle definition higher up, just like with humans. River's central metatarsal fracture (right hind leg, a bone in the hock/ankle) caused major changes in the muscle definition across her right hip. At its worst, there was about half an inch in height difference between her right and left PSIS (Posterior Superior Illiac Spine). The PSIS the pointy out bump on a greyhound's bum you can feel if you follow the pelvis around to where it sticks out at the sacrum. I assume it is called the PSIS on quadrupeds - that's what it's called in people. River could not stand squarely, it was like she was always cocking her hips to one side. It's obviously hard to draw conclusions from a picture, but I'm glad you are taking him into the vet. Greyhounds have a genetic predisposition towards developing a high percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibres which have a larger diameter than slow-twitch muscle fibres. That's why they look so ripped right off the track - frequent 30 second sprint training only further encourages the dog's slow twitch muscle fibres to take on the properties of fast-twitch fibres. All the fibres develop a huge diameter! They will "lose" muscle definition when they move home to your couch, but if they are getting lots of exercise, it's probably not that the muscle mass is lost, it's that the slow-twitch fibres they do have are being used more for those long walks, and some of the fast-twitch fibres are taking on the properties of slow-twitch fibres. All of that said, the muscle changes will usually be systemic, happening across all of the dog's muscles at once. It is unlikely that the amount of atrophy that you are seeing is due to lying on one side (not that I think you think that) or due to his recent lifestyle change in the last six weeks. It took almost 8 months for River to visibly lose her track definition, and that was with 6 weeks of zero exercise (and I mean zero - I carried her outside for pee breaks). I would definitely be looking for an injury, but make sure the vet checks out his whole leg, including hock and foot. One last thing, if everything checks out and the vet just prescribes taking it easy (fingers crossed!), the muscles that have atrophied there are his gluteus maximus and medius by the look of the picture. In quadrupeds these muscles are not used for abduction like they are with bipedal people. Quadrupeds use them for extending the legs backwards when running. It's why greyhounds have such "extreme badonkadonk" - they extend those legs straight out when sprinting, and those gluts are contracting very forcefully. River's gluts were the muscles that atrophied the most. It wasn't until we started going to the greyhound runs after she was fully healed that the definition came back because she was sprinting again. At first I'd been treating it like how I'd treat a human with atrophied gluts and trying to get her to do leg abductions. I even spent a fruitless week trying to train her to pee like a boy and lift her leg! Then I did my research and realized, Duh! She's a quadruped! Our glut medius has actually evolved to accommodate our bipedalism. In quadrupeds it has an understandably different function. So when he's given the all clear and the lameness is gone, get him out for some good runs where he does a full out sprint. The musculature will come back and his posture will be much better for it. Sorry for the novel, but these are my favorite kinds of questions. I saw those pictures and the phrase "for interests sake" and I thought, I have an answer! I have an answer! Forgive me
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whovian
Junior Grey Lover
River (a.k.a Iruska Cool Chic) has claimed me as her "friendbeast"
Posts: 171
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Post by whovian on Sept 5, 2014 12:25:17 GMT -5
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Post by savannah on Sept 5, 2014 12:51:37 GMT -5
Whovian do not apologize for your novel, those are the answers I love to hear! I did not know about the fast twitch muscles, that is really interesting. To answer your questions yes he does stand square and he appears to distribute weight evenly when doing so. Lameness is only visible when moving. I got another photo that shows the PSIS prominent on his right and no where to be found on his left! His left being the side that is showing so much more muscle development.
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Post by savannah on Sept 5, 2014 12:53:20 GMT -5
Also that anatomy of a greyhound is just perfect!!!
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Post by savannah on Sept 5, 2014 12:55:55 GMT -5
I will try to grab some conformation photos of him, might be neat to look back on one day and perhaps help someone else learn in the future once we get this figured out!
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scarletta
Grey Lover
On FB as "Onyx Can-Do"
Posts: 537
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Post by scarletta on Sept 5, 2014 22:46:51 GMT -5
OK so awesome question and AMAZING answers, Whovian!! You are really well educated on this and I appreciate you passing some of the knowledge on! My new girl Elvira pulls up stiffly on one shoulder from time to time, depending on physical activity and weather. I went on www.trackinfo.com/dog-search.jsp?breed=g and searched her race name (Gale Grace) and watched all of her races (as I did with Onyx). She had an awful fall/roll during a race and they raced her 34 times after that so I attribute it to maybe that. Either way, giving her coconut oil, good food and a daily massage to her muscles seems to have really minimized the issue. Good luck on finding Grady's issue! I really do think a trip to the vet is paramount when getting a new furry buddy anyway.
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Post by renegade on Sept 5, 2014 23:08:41 GMT -5
Awesome pictures! It almost appears that he could have a something of a misalignment in his pelvis, I wonder if you have access to a chiropractor in your area? It also might be worthwhile to investigate if he had any hind-end injuries off the track, maybe there's something there that would help solve the mystery of the missing hipbone Also, try not to worry too much, good on you for noticing it!
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