emily
Hound Nut
Posts: 1,529
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Post by emily on Sept 22, 2007 13:38:47 GMT -5
It's been said: Emily's ravenous! Ravenous! One of her many nicknames is Jughead (I hope I don't have to explain that).
It's torture for her to wait for her food to soak. She's taken it upon herself to voice her discontent the whole duration of food prep. I mean whining!!! Three times a day whining!!!
I often leave the room and occupy myself with something or other just to get away from it. Apparently, reading the newspaper at the kitchen table is an open invitation to remind me that her food is just sitting there waiting to be inhaled.
She sometimes feels the need to express her disapproval of the speed it takes between offerings (as she is fed in small increments at a time) or between courses. She knows what comes when. If I deign to mix the fruit in with the kibble, it still only counts as one - Emily math.
It's not part of her charm. It's annoying.
For the first 9 or so months, I would say "we have to wait". Then it became "no". Now, it's just plain "stop" with VOG, twitching finger, facial expression.
Last month, realizing that I was making the task too exciting: the parade to the kibble bin, the appetizer of a few preview kibbles as long as she sat pretty for me. Now, I make it mundane. I merely scoop out a portion, douse it with hot water and set it on top of the fridge. Plus, I've changed the wait time from 15 to 10 minutes.
It seemed to have reduced the amount of whining... for a while.
She's back at it and I'm at my wit's end.
If I notice she's been quiet, I give her verbal positive reinforcement. Mostly, she just beats me to it.
Help! I need tips! Has anyone dealt with a similar situation? How has the behaviour been modified?
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Post by samrob on Sept 22, 2007 19:49:01 GMT -5
Our pups have to work for their food. They have to lay quietly in the living room while their bowls are put down in the kitchen. If they come before we call, they have to go lay down again - both of them. It is quite funny to see them run away from you when you are getting ready to serve their food.
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erinder
Grey Lover
Collarbones - for you guessed it, collars! (formerly Fussy Pup)
Posts: 421
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Post by erinder on Sept 22, 2007 22:01:09 GMT -5
Hmm... Do you have to soak the food? Will she eat it dry?
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genia
Grey Lover
Posts: 672
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Post by genia on Sept 23, 2007 9:36:49 GMT -5
ours wait quietly while their food is getting made - never had them get really antsy about it. The only one who really acts up is the ridgeback and she'll start barking when dinner is being served to the others first - she's the third one to be served - unless I'm the one serving her and she knows not to bark at me.
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Post by GreyPoopon on Sept 23, 2007 18:55:57 GMT -5
The key to changing this is not reinforcing the whining--if she is whining, you don't give her the food. Period. It's the same principle one is supposed to use when crate training--if the dog is being noisy, it doesn't get out.
Some people believe that one ought not to use a "quiet" command, but I find it handy.
You can also reinforce the positive behaviour--silence--with treats as well as praise. And you can give her a job to do, such as the down that samrob's puppers have to hold.
Whatever you do, it is going to take time. She has you trained; it's going to be a while before she realizes that you are no longer playing by her rules.
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Post by tara on Sept 24, 2007 7:40:55 GMT -5
Mine both have to work for it as well. I use the "blanket" and "wait" commands. Their bowls are mine until I want to share, I don't share until they are waiting quietly. They now do it automatically. If they don't wait patiently I take up their dishes and they don't get it for at least an hour (same routine). The really greyt thing about greys is they are smart and catch on quick to what you expect of them. Their brainpower is how she trained you so quickly LOL. If they ever plot to take over the world I'd give them a week to hatch a plan. Hope you can solve the problem quickly ... for your sanity. Tara
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Post by jiffer on Sept 24, 2007 8:47:13 GMT -5
My first thought is why do you put hot water on the food and let it sit for a period? That would be torture for her.. to know it's there but that she's being denied. Dogs are all about the instant gratification. With our group, we scoop food in and pour cool water on it from the tap then put it down for them to eat. Uber would have us drivin 'round the bend if we made him wait. He's quite demanding when dinner is not on time. We don't do any of the sit, wait, etc.. however, I do demand from them that they go to their own bowl setting and we do put the food down in a certain order. Echo, Orion/Atlas and finally, Uber.
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Post by kjw on Sept 24, 2007 11:21:10 GMT -5
I have to agree with Jiffer about the waiting.
Also, I'm not sure why you're feeding 3x a day? Once or twice is more common, unless there's a medical issue that requires small meals.
Changing meal time every day also stops the anticipation. If they don't know when the food is coming, they aren't going to start looking for it at a particular time, although with your girl, I suppose she is smelling it and it's driving her nuts.
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Post by tara on Sept 24, 2007 12:06:01 GMT -5
When I say wait I just mean quietly while I am filling their dishes, putting water on it and setting it down. As soon as that is done they get it. I guess what I really want is manners ... no pushing, knocking dish out of hand, bumping each other ect. Tara
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emily
Hound Nut
Posts: 1,529
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Post by emily on Sept 25, 2007 11:44:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the remarks.
This whole feeding regime was started on the first vet visit four days after we got the girl.
Dr Vet encouraged me to give a small midday meal to diminish the strain of a full stomach which could lead to bloat. Emily agreed wholeheartedly.
When asked how her appetite was, I told Dr Vet that she was ravenous and that we had to work on her table manners, at which point she suggested I soak the food to fluff it so she would register 'full'.
I complied because she was looking after Emily's best interest, but I don't mind saying that I never should have heeded her advice.
For one thing, I have to be conscious of the clock and plan any outing around her lunch. I'm not feeling well enough to work right now, but when I spring back, I get the impression there's going to be a major adjustment. Mutiny!
Another thing, the smell of wet kibble is nauseating at the best of times. When I'm having an 'episode' (I have vertigo - or something as yet undiagnosed), I just plop the whole thing in her bowl and stagger away. I can't be dishing out thingyfuls at a time. I doubt she notices I'm gone if not for the absence of reminders about her manners.
We're implementing the 'on your bed' technique in the living room. It's something she's regretfully learning. She voices her opinion - the high pitch these creatures can emit! She gets up constantly.
DH is more patient than I am, but he's away most meals.
I'm hesitant to make her wait longer if she doesn't comply - I mean an hour?
I'm not against dry kibble, either. But then she's getting what she wants and waiting is something she never has to learn.
So, the past ten months were an exercise in futility?
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Post by tinastroops on Sept 25, 2007 12:20:17 GMT -5
I agree with Jen & Karen.
When Sahara came to us just over a year ago - I too would say she was ravenous and she was well under weight, in due time and positive correction she fell into the ranks and she understood how our feeding process worked. BTW we feed twice a day, with room temp water in each bowl.
I don't make my guys "wait" or do anything out of the norm other then behave while I am preparing their food. They get fed in order of the pack, Booker, Tilt, Sahara then Ducati. Ducati is 3 months into retirement and still learning the ropes.
I to have learned that everything comes in due time with positive reinforcement.
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Post by kjw on Sept 25, 2007 12:50:43 GMT -5
Well, I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that the last 10 months were futile, but it sounds like it's not working for you anymore on several levels. Most of all, she's still eating ravenously.
Bloat is really not so common as you might think, in fact we had the first one I've ever heard of 1st hand just recently on this forum. It was tragic, yes, and very scarey to think you could lose your pup so quickly, but if you run your life based on all the things that might happen, it's really no life at all. And from what I've read, it's more about exercising too close to eating, but that may just be a theory.
All of my greys, except Andy, he's special lol, have arrived here eating like a hoover vaccuum. I was truly afraid that Cody, my first, would choke on his kibble, he ate so fast! After a while, they seem to start to get the fact that no one is going to try to take their food away,and that they will get enough food and they slow down. Now they even leave food in their bowl from time to time, depending on what I give them.
I really think if you just give her the food, with or without water, without making a big deal of it, and without making her wait too long ( a minute is an eternity to a hungry dog!) she will calm down eventually, and if you ignore the behavior you don't like (whining etc) and reward the behavior you want to see more of, you'll get there. Personally, I would stop with the 3x a day thing, but that's up to you. I feed my guys 1x a day, but I feed raw, so that's a little different.
I'm also thinking that because Emily is getting 3 small meals instead of 2 bigger or 1 large, maybe she doesn't feel full, and that's why she's still acting ravenous?
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Post by GreyPoopon on Sept 25, 2007 19:08:38 GMT -5
Hmmm. Well, poodles are wayyyyyy more likely to suffer bloat than greyhounds, and my vet is quite happy to have me feed twice per day. I've not heard that wet kibble fills up a dog better, but perhaps it does.
I also don't worry about pack order when I feed. I spoke to a very experienced trainer with a large pack of high-energy dogs, and she does stuff like feed first the dog who gives her the quickest sit. I don't usually do that--I just change the order every time. Of course, Emily doesn't have to worry about pack order.
In any event, when I suggested that you not feed when she was whining, I didn't mean that you had to wait a long time. Just 5 or 10 seconds of quiet would be enough at first. You can extend it as she starts to get the point.
I don't think you wasted 10 months. I think you gave your vet's recommendations a solid try, and they're not working. You've earned the right to try something else. ;D So maybe you should go to two meals, and try feeding faster--but make her give you at least a few seconds of quiet before you give her the bowl.
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emily
Hound Nut
Posts: 1,529
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Post by emily on Sept 26, 2007 8:21:39 GMT -5
I had a good talk with Emily yesterday. I told her she'd get her meals much quicker than she used to - in two meals rather than three.
Her wait time on the bed is lightning speed, now.
There were no complaints about the extra half cup this morning.
Let's see how well she does when she realizes there will be no lunch today.
Wish us luck!
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Post by GreyPoopon on Sept 26, 2007 9:22:12 GMT -5
Good luck.
You could try "weaning" her off the extra meal with a biscuit, but it might be easier in the long run to give her nothing. She should stop asking within a few days.
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