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Post by Havencroft on Oct 6, 2014 12:01:08 GMT -5
So, the worst thing happened today and I don't know how to feel about it. Ozzie, our 8 year old brindled boy, got loose from the yard somehow. We're still trying to figure this out, but we've made changes to our gates and he'll only be out on a tiedown now. He went for a wander down the street and met up with some children and their small dog. The mother was there and says that Ozzie was a total sweetheart, getting pets and sniffing the other dog politely. He then left them and started trotting back to our house when he stopped, turned around and ran at full speed to their puppy. He grabbed it, shook it and basically snapped it's back. By this time, a man had grabbed Ozzie, who dropped the dog and calmed right down! He stood calmly beside the man, looking for pets and being very affectionate. My husband got there for the end of this and grabbed Ozzie, leashing him. Of course, things got a little ugly with the people- they were horrified and frightened! Ozzie came back to the house and was calm and happy, just like he'd been out for a nice little stroll.
We got the news later that the dog had to be put down. I am devastated by this. My Ozzie is the sweetest hound I've met, giving kisses, being snuggly and sweet with everyone. He's wonderful around children and completely bomb-proof. Thankfully, the other owners are being kind and won't be pressing charges- we're paying the vet bills of course. My problem is I don't know how to even look at Ozzie right now. He's my little snuggle-bug but I can't be in the same room with him without seeing him with the bloody face and teeth he came home with. I am worried that keeping him is not the right thing to do- should we be thinking about putting him down? Should we be talking to Heather about re-homing him? Other than beefing up our security and never letting him out without a leash on, even in the yard, what can I do?
I'm so upset right now. I would love to hear from other owners about this situation!
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Post by savannah on Oct 6, 2014 12:19:17 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear this boaz.
Unfortunately this is Greyhound nature and not something they can be reprimanded for and certainly not something they should be culled over. How long have you had Ozzie?
If you don't feel you can trust him or adore him in the same way anymore you should look at re-homing home.
Again, I am so sorry this has happened.
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Post by Havencroft on Oct 6, 2014 14:50:46 GMT -5
We have had him for just about 2 years. I know it is natural for them and we didn't freak out on him or anything, but I'm really confused about what to do!
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Post by itsagreytlife on Oct 6, 2014 16:01:18 GMT -5
Such a heartbreaking situation. I am so sorry this happened ?. I have no direct experience or advice to give except to take a bit of time before you make a final decision as you are probably in shock right now. I am sure you will gets lots of good advice from other experienced owners. My thoughts are with you.
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Post by Sally Blossom on Oct 6, 2014 17:27:52 GMT -5
I truly feel your pain and my heart aches for you and Boaz. Please do not make any quick decision as to what to do. I understand fully that you are in a state of shock and it hurts but this was truly a very unfortunate accident. I had a similar incident in the past but not to that degree and I had the same feeling as you to seeing blood on my dogs face and teeth and it took awhile to come to terms with my pets behavior. I am not an expert but I am sure others in the greyhound world can help you and talk with you. As I mentioned earlier it was truly a very unfortunate accident and we are all here to help and comfort you.
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Post by rubylottie14 on Oct 6, 2014 19:11:18 GMT -5
This is an awful thing for you to have had to go through.
It's not Ozzie's fault. He's just doing what he was bred and taught to do.
I've had 4 greyhounds and 3 of them have killed 3 cats between them. I also had a lurcher who killed a cat. I clearly remember each incident and they were all awful and shocking and I felt dreadful and sick over it.
I also experienced seeing my beloved greyhound with blood on their face and I felt very strange and uncomfortable around them for a while afterwards. You suddenly see them in their 'natural' state and it's a shock because we kid ourselves that they are solely cuddly loveable etc which of course they are but we conveniently 'forget' the other aspects of their natures.
Please do not punish Ozzie for doing what he's been bred and schooled for by putting him to sleep. That would be incredibly unfair on him.
Give yourself time to get over the shock. I was able to get over my greyhounds killing the cats and love them just the same as before.
If you find you can't get past it then the best thing would be to contact Hazel and rehome Ozzie. But think carefully as it would be so sad if you did this and then regretted it.
He is 8 and he's your dear dog and it would be sad for him to have to go back to the kennels and wait to be rehomed. He would not understand why he was no longer with you.
Muzzles have been designed for a reason - whereas some greyhounds can live with cats and small dogs many will retain their prey drive and see a small dog, cat, squirrel etc as perfectly legitimate prey especially if they are not part of their pack and their home.
I say all this not to offend or distress you but as someone who has gone through this 4 times and suffered as you are suffering now.
I hope you soon feel better.
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Post by angelollie on Oct 7, 2014 12:01:32 GMT -5
Boaz, as the others have mentioned, please don't consider putting Ozzie down. Dogs of all breeds, particularly hunting dogs and not just greyhounds, have been bred to hunt prey for years and years. Ozzie sounds like an amazing hound in his home and one that you wouldn't find a better fit with your family. Of all the greyhounds I have had, Angel Frankie was my first high prey hound. And he did the unthinkable as well, and grabbed a little poodle mix that lunged at him. I know the circumstances may have been different compared to Ozzie but the attack was the same. So I know exactly how you feel ... I was the same, in shock that my gorgeous loving brindle boy could do such a thing and then wondering how am I going to fix this. It never crossed my mind at all to have Frankie put to sleep ... as this prey driven instinct was not his fault, nor was it something that he would always be able to control. So after my overall shock, anger, etc. I realized I had to find a way for all of us to live a good life together and deal with this problem .... Frankie, like Ozzie, was excellent in the house but did react to small dogs when on walks. I got a good harness for Frankie, one that he couldn't get out of, started using his muzzle while on walks and started correcting him every time he got himself excited over another dog.
I'm assuming that Ozzie doesn't always react to small animals normally? What I find strange is that Ozzie was right there with the pup and family originally, walked away and then returned to react on his instinct. What I'm wondering is if this pup was whimpering or bouncing around, which are actions that could have sparked that instinct in Ozzie. I know this can happen and I've seen it happen. When your husband arrived at the scene, was there anything odd that stood out in his mind. Did the other people say anything at the time as to what might have caused it.
Ozzie isn't aware that he has done wrong and of course won't understand your negative reaction towards him. Please give it some time, especially for you to accept what has happened. If you would feel better, put Ozzie's muzzle on whenever he goes out in the yard and walks. There are also other sites like the GRA facebook, the Pro Greyhound Movement, that may be able to offer more ideas. After Frankie's incident, I read as many articles as I could on the internet re prey driven instinct and if I remember right, there are well over 20 different breeds of dogs that carry this instinct through their breeding. You could also call Heather at GRA for input ... her cell no. and email address are at the bottom of the adoptables list.
Boaz, I feel you have an excellent hound in Ozzie. This incident is something you and your family will have to sort out and be able to move on hopefully with Ozzie still a family member. An incident like this may never happen again. We're all here to give you support and help in any way we can (unfortunately the forum isn't as busy now that GRA FB is so active). I'll keep checking back ..... just hang in there!!
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Post by campgreyhound on Oct 7, 2014 14:17:10 GMT -5
First of all, I'm very sorry you and everyone there went through this. Once you've seen the animal nature in action, you never quite look at dogs the same way again. I have had the misfortune to see this type of event more than once, and it's difficult and upsetting.
This event does not mean that Ozzie is not a good fit for your family, or that he won't be safe around kids. Something the puppy did triggered the behavior, whether it was a movement or a noise he made and Ozzie did the same thing he would do with a stuffy. Now that you know he can act like this around smaller animals, you'd be wise to muzzle him, at least for a while, until you are sure about what triggers him and what doesn't. Even on leash they can have this sort of incident, so plan your walks accordingly during this time and keep your distance from smaller animals. It will take some time for trust to build up again.
Edited to add: Just to be clear, I mean muzzle him when he's going to be in close quarters with small animals.
If you feel the need to talk about this incident with a professional trainer, there is one on this forum with lots of greyhound experience that can help you sort things out about Ozzie, and help you figure out if there's a way to prevent future incidents. I will PM you her name.
With time and plenty of talking you and your family will likely integrate this experience and be able to keep Ozzie. But if it turns out to be too stressful, Ozzie can be re-homed too. It just depends on what you feel is right for your family.
For now, take care of yourselves, and give it a little time, you've been through a shocking experience.
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troysmom
Hound Nut
Troy & Leopold
Posts: 1,717
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Post by troysmom on Oct 7, 2014 22:00:13 GMT -5
I agree with all the comments above. Give it time. Very unfortunate. I wouldn't give up on Ozzie you have had 2 wonderful years! this was just a bad , one time event. I agree with Karen and angelollie. We have to remember they are animals. PLease Please do not consider putting him down. As Karen said he can be rehomed if it you can't work through this.
My mom's dog cornered and killed to cats on her farm. It was very upsetting. She is not aggressive to the family or kids by no means. She was just doing what dogs sometimes do.
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Post by Heather (& KC) on Oct 8, 2014 6:36:43 GMT -5
This is devastating. I would really struggle with this as well. As others have suggested, take some time, adjust some of your handling and figure out what you want to do. You're in shock, don't make any quick decisions and in the end if you decide he's not a good fit for you and your family, take him back to GRA for rehoming.
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OwnedBySummer
Hound Nut
"Summer" (aka Coach Standifer)
Posts: 1,392
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Post by OwnedBySummer on Oct 8, 2014 14:46:53 GMT -5
I'm so sorry this happened. I'm used to my girl catching and eating rabbits in the yard but someone else's dog must be horrifying for you. You've had some wonderful advice and the only thing I'd like to add is to not use a tiedown. Greyhounds can race out to the end of a tiedown and, when they run out of cable, they can easily break their necks.
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Post by Heather (& KC) on Oct 8, 2014 16:38:11 GMT -5
Agreed @ownedbysummer. Please use a muzzle.
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whovian
Junior Grey Lover
River (a.k.a Iruska Cool Chic) has claimed me as her "friendbeast"
Posts: 171
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Post by whovian on Oct 9, 2014 8:12:55 GMT -5
I am so so sorry that this has happened to you. I also know how heartbreaking it is to feel you need to consider rehoming your hound. I wondered those same thoughts when my girl started showing increased aggression - snarling, and growling - towards people in the house who were nowhere near her, even on the other side of the room. I know that that is nothing like what you've experienced, but for me the psychological symptoms were the same. I know what it is like to wonder if you can trust your dog, to struggle to look at your dog, to hesitate to approach them or pet them because you know that those teeth are in there, to wonder what will set it off. It's a terrible, horrible, gut-wrenching feeling that keeps you up at night. All you want to do is love your hound. And all your hound is doing is following its instincts. Biggest hugs from all of us here. I know that you will make the decision that is best for you, but I strongly recommend having a trainer come in to work with your dog one-on-one. It made a world of difference for us. I'd decided that if a professional trainer thought I needed to rehome the dog, then I would rehome River. I felt that it was the least selfish way to make that decision (I selfishly wanted to keep her, and simultaneously I was so full of anxiety around her that I selfishly wanted to re-home her. I felt that I alone could no longer make the decision about what was right or fair for her). Shop around for a trainer though, don't just pick the first one out of the phone book. Not all trainers are alike. I also think that picking a trainer that has a positive approach to training is more important than one with greyhound experience. I don't think all BarkBusters trainers are problematic, for instance, but the one around here has apparently owned 3 greyhounds and I know his approach of yelling at the dog would not have worked with my shy, spooky, sensitive girl. Call your vet and ask for advice on trainers in the area. Hope this helps. I also agree on the muzzle before going outside thing. I know that is hard on you psychologically too - but not as hard as being so afraid to take your dog outside that he doesn't get any exercise. If you are looking for a good read, try one or two of the books by Patricia McConnell. They were super helpful for me. Here's a list: www.amazon.ca/s?_encoding=UTF8&field-author=Patricia%20B.%20McConnell%20Ph.D.&search-alias=digital-textHer books are short, quick reads, with some helpful advice on how to read your dog's body language so that you can determine what's a trigger and what's not. Ozzie may have some small body language signs that let you know he's excited even before the ears go up. Greyhounds are fast, so it's important to read the body language as soon as they are giving it. My girl does not have a high prey drive, but she is addicted to eating trash and on garbage day I have to look for many of the same excitement signs especially now that there are leaves all over the place to hide tasty things. River stops moving her head from side to side, closes her mouth and stiffens up just a little bit, if there is something she is going to lunge at up ahead. She starts to do it about 50 meters away from the thing. So I watch for the sign, tell her to wait, and if she won't listen to me, we turn around and walk the other way. I don't trust her with kids at all, so it's the same thing with them. If she will walk calmly, no stiffness in her shoulders or in her hind end, with her face relaxed, we will walk past kids on the same side of the street. I keep myself between her and the child, and I talk to the child about how this is a nice doggy to look at but she doesn't like pettings. It's hard to do all of those things at once, but with practice it gets easier. If the kid is crying or making high pitched noises, River gets stiffer and we cross the street. I also never put River in the situation where the child is following us (i.e. I don't turn around) because that makes River even more tense. When we have moved past the thing that was making her tense and she is relaxed again, I praise her, and lead her to a place to sniff and say "ok." I discovered through training that even though River is food motivated, it's not the reward she craves when she's been in a tense situation. She wants to be able to sniff things and sniffing puts her back "into a positive state of mind." That's the phrase our trainer always uses - it's all about getting your dog into a positive state of mind. In our case it's about not attacking out of fear, in yours it may be about not hunting prey. The state I watch for and the state you watch for are different, but ultimately neither is the calm, collected state of mind you want your dog to be in. Again, I am so so sorry that this has happened to you. These next few weeks will be the hardest. I am not sure where you are, but if you are in the Waterloo area I can recommend an excellent trainer. An in-home trainer visit isn't cheap, but with the right trainer, the confidence boost that it will give you about how to help your dog (and help yourself) through this is well worth the money. We only had one in home session and a few conversations over email, and it's turned everything around for us. We will be starting obedience and/or agility group classes with her come January. Working with a trainer changed me from being anxious about my dog to feeling like I am in control. Good luck and hugs.
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Post by Mag's Mom on Oct 9, 2014 14:56:40 GMT -5
As everyone has said, I am so sorry this happened as well. Once when we were walking our Mag on his leash, we were trying to introduce him to a puppy as everyone wants you to meet their puppy. He put his mouth right on his neck at the scruff. Luckily the Lord looks out for fools, and nothing happened that time but now we just avoid all dogs.
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troysmom
Hound Nut
Troy & Leopold
Posts: 1,717
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Post by troysmom on Oct 12, 2014 13:40:28 GMT -5
Just wanted to chime in again, but this is not just a greyhound thing...my sweet and gentle dachshund is not good with pups, especially the timid ones. I just leave or avoid those situations
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